People who bitch about war powers in the modern age are boring be they on the left or the right and clinging to the notion that only Congress has the power to declare war is not even mildly practical in the modern world.
When the framers wrote the constitution, outside of putting down bandits, practically all conflicts were between nation-states and declarations of war complete with a cause for war were the norm.
Since then, many different kinds of conflict have been added to the ruler’s or dictator’s tool box including state-sponsored terrorism and wars by proxy by providing weapons and other support to officially stateless guerrilla fighters.
The modern world ups the ante on the world that the framers envisioned in the constitution, creating the need for more possible responses to uses of force by an aggressor than either a) sitting on your hands, or b) taking the time to create a consensus in a legislative body and if you can’t get consensus, allowing whatever your enemy is doing to go on.
Yeah, the President’s de facto ability to wage war can be abused or used foolishly (there’s this place called Iraq...) but by the constitutional standard the cartoon and some posters adhere to EVERY military action the United States has engaged in for the last sixty-six years has been illegal including some of our greatest successes (Samsung, Daewoo and other Korean companies owe a *lot* to the U.S. Marine Corps).
If you find drone-strikes and incursions by Special Operations personnel into the sovereign territory of a weak and duplicitous ally offensive, consider the alternatives your desire for neatness leaves us: either cranking up the whole military machine and conquering Pakistan in order to hunt for people we’ve already killed, or having people who plan and execute the deaths of thousands every year, including Osama Bin Laden, feel safe enough to go sunbathing.
Right here is the difference between the left and the right:
If a leader on the right is lying doing illegal or immoral their wing will defend every one of his actions.
If a leader on the left is doing something illegal or immoral we will say so openly. (At least in most cases.)
I support morals and values (like compassion and honesty) and therefor I oppose the right wing.
Submitted by Howard_Roark on Thu, 2011-06-30 03:21.
Dear Anonymous -
Your comments are hilarious! I live near Berkeley, CA, and I have yet to see any left-wingers out in the streets protesting the war in Libya. In fact, their silence is deafening!
I have to give Our Dear Leader, Comrade Che Maobama some credit, though. At least he consistently ignores the Constitution. It doesn't matter whether it is the War Powers Clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 11); the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 9th, or 10th Amendment; or the Commerce Clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3). This alleged Constitutional "scholar" is an expert at evading the original meaning and intent of the document; not adhering to it.
And please don't waste your time (or mine) trying to defend the "Living Constitution" doctrine. This argument fails for the simple reason that our Founding Fathers gave us a process to amend the Constitution. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the document, see Article V. I also recommend reading Thomas Sowell's syndicated column titled, "July 4th" at - http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell062811.php3 . Especially if you found yourself nodding your (bobble?) head in agreement while reading Time magazine's recent cover story on this subject. It is titled, "Does It Still Matter?" See cover at - http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,20110704,00.html
But there's nobody on the left protesting the Libya war, because there's nobody in H. Roark's immediate field of vision doing it. Kind of like how any spot of cold weather in some particular place can be used to disprove global warming.
Submitted by Howard_Roark on Fri, 2011-07-01 08:40.
Gary -
Wow! I think I counted maybe 8 people in that crowd in your first link. As for the last link, allow me to quote what was written, "About 80 protesters gathered near the U.S. military recruiting center in Times Square... "
I've always been a fan of your cartoons, but its admittedly been a long time since one of them made me laugh out loud. "Tender Kisses of Democracy" did the trick. Good show.
Nice! Yes, anyone with intellectual integrity and moral courage can state the "emperor has no clothes" obvious that the US use of force is unlawful. I teach government courses and explain, document, and prove under war law that current US wars are not close to lawful: http://www.examiner.com/nonpartisan-in-national/open-proposal-for-us-rev...
In relation to Thingamagig, I agreed with you wholeheartedly vis a vis Iraq, but with Libya, Kadafi used anti aircraft machineguns on his people, demonstraters in Tripoli, what to do?
Submitted by Gary Kleppe on Mon, 2011-06-27 13:11.
For starters, obey the law. Our Constitution wisely requires a declaration by Congress in order to go to war. If there's a case for going to war against Libya, let the administration make it.
Secondly, let's have somebody independent and impartial investigate the facts, not only about the existing regime but about the people who are trying to replace them. Many's the time the USA has deposed governments and had the new ones turn out to be even worse.
You have my consent Mr. Obama. Go get those al-Qaeda worms! No place to run to, no place to hide! There is room in the sea for Zawahiri and all his minions.
Good work in Libya too! That is the right thing to do too.
Torture is tickle fuzzy-hug. Sexual assault is for your safety. War is now kinetic blah blah blah. The Constitution is just ink on paper. It has no meaning other than what the people with lawyers guns and money attribute to it. Lies. Lies. And more Lies. Everything the state says is a lie and everything it has it has stolen. It doesn't matter which party is in power. There is no difference.
But those bombs are falling on nations that most Americans couldn't find on a map. We're more interested in what a congressman does with his cell phone.
Comments
People who bitch about war
People who bitch about war powers in the modern age are boring be they on the left or the right and clinging to the notion that only Congress has the power to declare war is not even mildly practical in the modern world.
When the framers wrote the constitution, outside of putting down bandits, practically all conflicts were between nation-states and declarations of war complete with a cause for war were the norm.
Since then, many different kinds of conflict have been added to the ruler’s or dictator’s tool box including state-sponsored terrorism and wars by proxy by providing weapons and other support to officially stateless guerrilla fighters.
The modern world ups the ante on the world that the framers envisioned in the constitution, creating the need for more possible responses to uses of force by an aggressor than either a) sitting on your hands, or b) taking the time to create a consensus in a legislative body and if you can’t get consensus, allowing whatever your enemy is doing to go on.
Yeah, the President’s de facto ability to wage war can be abused or used foolishly (there’s this place called Iraq...) but by the constitutional standard the cartoon and some posters adhere to EVERY military action the United States has engaged in for the last sixty-six years has been illegal including some of our greatest successes (Samsung, Daewoo and other Korean companies owe a *lot* to the U.S. Marine Corps).
If you find drone-strikes and incursions by Special Operations personnel into the sovereign territory of a weak and duplicitous ally offensive, consider the alternatives your desire for neatness leaves us: either cranking up the whole military machine and conquering Pakistan in order to hunt for people we’ve already killed, or having people who plan and execute the deaths of thousands every year, including Osama Bin Laden, feel safe enough to go sunbathing.
Which scenario makes more sense to you?
Two wars? Show me the
Two wars? Show me the declarations of war!
Right here is the difference
Right here is the difference between the left and the right:
If a leader on the right is lying doing illegal or immoral their wing will defend every one of his actions.
If a leader on the left is doing something illegal or immoral we will say so openly. (At least in most cases.)
I support morals and values (like compassion and honesty) and therefor I oppose the right wing.
Dear Anonymous - Your
Dear Anonymous -
Your comments are hilarious! I live near Berkeley, CA, and I have yet to see any left-wingers out in the streets protesting the war in Libya. In fact, their silence is deafening!
I have to give Our Dear Leader, Comrade Che Maobama some credit, though. At least he consistently ignores the Constitution. It doesn't matter whether it is the War Powers Clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 11); the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 9th, or 10th Amendment; or the Commerce Clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3). This alleged Constitutional "scholar" is an expert at evading the original meaning and intent of the document; not adhering to it.
And please don't waste your time (or mine) trying to defend the "Living Constitution" doctrine. This argument fails for the simple reason that our Founding Fathers gave us a process to amend the Constitution. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the document, see Article V. I also recommend reading Thomas Sowell's syndicated column titled, "July 4th" at - http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell062811.php3 . Especially if you found yourself nodding your (bobble?) head in agreement while reading Time magazine's recent cover story on this subject. It is titled, "Does It Still Matter?" See cover at - http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,20110704,00.html
Kudos to Mark for getting it right this time!
- H. Roark
Found via a web search in
Found via a web search in under a minute:
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4596920/libya-anti-war-protest-in-phoenix-/
http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2011/03/23/list-of-protests...
http://blogs.philadelphiaweekly.com/phillynow/2011/06/29/philly-anti-war...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25450
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/03/19/times-square-protesters-rally-aga...
And the list goes on.
But there's nobody on the left protesting the Libya war, because there's nobody in H. Roark's immediate field of vision doing it. Kind of like how any spot of cold weather in some particular place can be used to disprove global warming.
Gary - Wow! I think I
Gary -
Wow! I think I counted maybe 8 people in that crowd in your first link. As for the last link, allow me to quote what was written, "About 80 protesters gathered near the U.S. military recruiting center in Times Square... "
Thanks for proving my point!
Regards,
- H. Roark
I've always been a fan of
I've always been a fan of your cartoons, but its admittedly been a long time since one of them made me laugh out loud. "Tender Kisses of Democracy" did the trick. Good show.
Nice! Yes, anyone with
Nice! Yes, anyone with intellectual integrity and moral courage can state the "emperor has no clothes" obvious that the US use of force is unlawful. I teach government courses and explain, document, and prove under war law that current US wars are not close to lawful: http://www.examiner.com/nonpartisan-in-national/open-proposal-for-us-rev...
Excellent as always Limited
Excellent as always
Limited Connectic Operation
Great Job
solidarity & peace
RIck@AveryVoice.com
In relation to Thingamagig,
In relation to Thingamagig, I agreed with you wholeheartedly vis a vis Iraq, but with Libya, Kadafi used anti aircraft machineguns on his people, demonstraters in Tripoli, what to do?
For starters, obey the law.
For starters, obey the law. Our Constitution wisely requires a declaration by Congress in order to go to war. If there's a case for going to war against Libya, let the administration make it.
Secondly, let's have somebody independent and impartial investigate the facts, not only about the existing regime but about the people who are trying to replace them. Many's the time the USA has deposed governments and had the new ones turn out to be even worse.
You have my consent Mr.
You have my consent Mr. Obama. Go get those al-Qaeda worms! No place to run to, no place to hide! There is room in the sea for Zawahiri and all his minions.
Good work in Libya too! That is the right thing to do too.
Torture is tickle fuzzy-hug.
Torture is tickle fuzzy-hug. Sexual assault is for your safety. War is now kinetic blah blah blah. The Constitution is just ink on paper. It has no meaning other than what the people with lawyers guns and money attribute to it. Lies. Lies. And more Lies. Everything the state says is a lie and everything it has it has stolen. It doesn't matter which party is in power. There is no difference.
But those bombs are falling
But those bombs are falling on nations that most Americans couldn't find on a map. We're more interested in what a congressman does with his cell phone.
So true.....maybe
So true.....maybe congressmen should spend more time on the nation's business and less on thier cell phones???
Just in time for Obama's
Just in time for Obama's address from the Oval Office, happening right now-- a Declaration of Thingamajigs!
-MF
Post new comment