Comments

The "letting Japanese fly

The "letting Japanese fly planes over Pearl Harbor" comparison is PERFECT.

After all, it was the Japanese government and military - which is the whole country of Japan not a tiny minority of extremists - that attacked us yet we've got no problem with planes from Japan doing 'victory fly overs' at Pearl Harbor, landing near the destruction and having actual Japanese citizens stomping all over the Pearl Harbor memorial taking pictures of the damage they caused.. 'victory pictures', if you will.

I have an idea of how to get the Mosque/Community Center controversy to die down:
Build it, use it, and in 2 years it will be a non-issue.

funny how a mosque falls on

funny how a mosque falls on a the character practicing free speech. great!

COTO's picture

*lol* I noticed that too.

*lol*

I noticed that too.

Today on CNN

Today on CNN (9/8)

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/07/new.york.islamic.center.islamophobia/in...

(sic) "To quote the attorney general, he called the Gainesville planned burning of Qurans 'idiotic and dangerous,'" said Farhana Khera, president of Muslim Advocates, soon after meeting with Holder.

Is it dangerous because followers of Islam support freedom of expression even when they do not like the message?

(sic) "While it may not be a violation of the law -- it may be an act of free speech -- it certainly violates our sense of decency," she added about the Florida event.

Awwww, did your feelings get hurt? Is that a justification for murder and violent intimidation?

(sic) "I am heartened by the clear, unequivocal condemnation of this disrespectful, disgraceful act that has come from American religious leaders of all faiths ... as well as secular U.S. leaders and opinion makers," she said.

Did you get that? The message is disrespect. The message was not "we kill you", that is the feared response!
Why is it so very easy to provoke a murderous response from Muslims? Where source does this maddness come from? Do these people have no self-control at all?

(sic) But it is "very important that America wakes up," he argued. Radical Islam "must be shown a certain amount of force (and) determination."

Now there is a man with courage and a cause. He may be a little off his rocker, but his heart and his balls are in the right place.
GO GO Mr. Dan, you are the man! Have no fear, these people can kill you but they cannot defeat you.

Well, it seems Christians

Well, it seems Christians aren't very supportive of freedom of religion, unless you're talking about THEIR freedom.

Let's have a Bible burning, and see how YOU feel about it.

Here is an discussion of the

Here is an discussion of the issue that is better articulated than I can offer. A good read for BOTH sides of this debate.

http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/09/12/burning-korans-and-building-mosques...

Mark, your ability to turn

Mark, your ability to turn out incredibly entertaining and biting material is amazing. Judging by the flames, the Beck/Palin zombies are getting their panties in a terrible bunch! Keep up the good work, the thinking people are really loving it!!

I just want to thank the

I just want to thank the more or less moraless majority, and all you nutbars on the right of, but totaly wrong on most issues. I thank (fill in your choice of deity here)for allowing me to live north of the 49th. It lets me have endless hours laughing at you morons,and I stand in awe of how ignorant one group of people can be while safe in a country free of you people on mass. By the way the world laughs with me. Please continue in your pursuits, for as long as you display all the intollerance, and brainwashed bleeting of your leaders, ie:Beck, Limbagh, O Rielly and Fox News,which is partialy owned by the same people funding the New Islamic center in N.Y. you will retain the distain and revultion of the civilized world, as well as any one with a shred of I.Q. in your own toilet of a society.

God-O-Matic?? Really? You

God-O-Matic?? Really?

You should be ashamed of yourself and also of the liberals in this country who'd like nothing more than to replace the almighty with themselves.
Why not utilize your talent to identify and expose all Governmental misguided ideology. In my humble opinion you could easily double or triple your quips with just Barney Frank alone.

Wow.. what a contrived piece

Wow.. what a contrived piece of oversimplified slop full of mischaracterizations and strained exaggerations in order to weakly argue a position. It just proves and illustrates how pathetic the position of those who argue there's nothing sinister or wrong with building a 'victory mosque' near ground zero and how uninformed and ignorant they are about sharia law.

mainestategop's picture

How many of you have

How many of you have actually taken the time to read the Qur’an and see what it says? You might be surprised at what you find. I wish it weren’t so, but I find it hard to believe that Islam in its purity is a peaceful and tolerant religion.

2:89-”Therefore, the curse of Allah is upon the unbelievers!”

2:97-”Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and messengers, to Gabriel and Michael, lo! Allah is an enemy of the unbelievers.”

2:191-”Kill them (unbelievers) wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you, for persecution is worse than slaughter…. Such is the reward of those who reject faith.”

2:193-”Fight against them (unbelievers) until there is no dissension, and the religion is for Allah.”
Fight until no other religion exists but Islam.

2:218-”But those who believe and those who migrate and struggle in the way of Allah, those, have hope of the mercy of Allah.”
Those who fight for Allah may have hope of forgiveness.

3:10-”Those who disbelieve, neither their riches nor their children shall save them from Allah. They shall become the fuel of the fire.”

3:19-”The only true faith in God’s sight is Islam. Those to whom the book was given disagreed among themselves only after knowledge had been given to them, being insolent among themselves. He who disbelieves the verses of Allah indeed Allah is swift in reckoning.”

3:28-”The believers should not take the unbelievers as friends or helpers in preference to the believers. He who does this does not belong to Allah in anything, unless you have a fear of them.”

3:110-”You are the best nation ever to be brought forth for people. You order honor and forbid dishonor, and you believe in Allah. Had the people of the book believed, it would have surely been better for them. Some of them are believers, but most of them are evildoers.”
Most Jews and Christians are wrongdoers.

3:151-”We will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve.”

4:76-”And those who believe fight in the way of Allah, but those who disbelieve fight in cause of evil. therefore, fight against those guided by Satan.”

4:89-”"Seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

4:95-”Those of the believers who sit still…are not on an equality with those who strive in the way of Allah with their wealth and lives. Allah hath conferred on those who strive with their wealth and lives a rank above te sedentary. Unto each Allah hath promised good, but He hath bestowed on those who strive a great reward above the sedentary.”
Muslims who fight in jihad are better than those who don’t.

4:101-”"For the unbelievers are to you open enemies.”

And there are similar

And there are similar passages in the Bible... your point?

Quote them.

Quote them.

Some good ones extolling the

Some good ones extolling the warlike and hateful nature of Jesus Christ himself...

"Think not I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34

"I am come to set fire on the earth." Luke 12:49

"Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division." Luke 12:51

"He that is not with me is against me." Matthew 12:50

And here's some other fun ones...

"When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you." Deuteronomy 20:10-17 (Yay Genocide!)

"If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house." Deuteronomy 22:20-21 (So, you object to mutilation, but killing her is fine? Interesting!)

In the BIBLE?! Really? THe

In the BIBLE?! Really? THe Bible teaches us to mutilate female genitalia, murder unbelievers and fly planes into buildings?

How about bringing up some those scriptures?

Obviously, you haven't read

Obviously, you haven't read the Bible... or the Koran, if you think there's anything on genital mutilation or blowing people up in there.

Don't forget mark, that

Don't forget mark, that there are peopel protesting mosques ALL OVER america like in Tennessee. Just search it up.

Just goes to show that

Just goes to show that idiocy knows no zip code.

It was an attack on us by

It was an attack on us by all Muslims. The extremists only act out what the rest of them are praying and working to achieve.
This cartoon reveals a Willful ignorance of the political element of Islam on your part Mark.
There is no such thing as seperation of church and state to Muslims.
Sharia law is diametrically opposed to our cultural values.
If they could have it all their way the world would be like Saudi Arabia and Iran. In thoes places people like you and me are executed for expressing ideas that the imams do not like.

I am against the political agenda of Islam to take over our society - and if you want to stay free you had better wise up to what they are up to.

Sufism, the sect of Islam

Sufism, the sect of Islam practiced by the Imam behind the Islamic center: "Sufism has always believed in tolerance toward other people and other religions and in peace. You can see why al Qaeda views it as its mortal enemy. The more Muslims accept some version of Sufi Islam, the more dangerous for al Qaed...a and its ...extreme jihadist philosophy." So the West should encourage Sufi Islam and its imams when we get a chance, right?"

The Moslems building the COMMUNITY CENTER are sufis, NOT practicing sharia law. Just as there are christian denominations, there are in Islam.

Al Queda is dancing with joy that some Americans are proving what they have been telling their recruits for years: Americans hate all Muslims. By protesting this COMMUNITY CENTER WITH A PRAYER ROOM (a prayer room like the one in the Pentagon, 80 ft. from where the plane hit, which BTW nobody there has complained about), you are giving aid to our real enemy.

President Bush visited a Mosque in DC within a week of 9/11 to tell Americans not to hold all Muslims responsible for the act of a few deranged terrorists. He said, "Islam is peace...let me quote from the Koran, itself: "In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule." The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war."

These Americans citizens have no more to do with 9/11 than you do. They're just normal people who want a community center, like a YMCA.

Where'd you get your stylish

Where'd you get your stylish tinfoil hat? I simply MUST have one...

Gitcher tinfoil beanie here!

Gitcher tinfoil beanie here! http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

Great for stavin' off them sociulist hordes and their evil microwave signals stealin yer righteous godly thoughts, dontcha know?!

Long live God-fearin' christians! Death to everybody else! Or at the very least, don't let them build community centers like we build YMCAs!

No. It really wasn't.

No. It really wasn't. Muslims are people and therefore diverse as Christians. There are extremists and there are moderates. Many who live in this country are patriots.

This isn't an Islamic political agenda. It's the equivalent of some folks building a YMCA a half a mile from the site of the Oklahoma City bombing. Timothy McVeigh was raised Catholic so would a building with Christian ties in the same neighborhood be offensive?

Your xenophobia and the political agenda of the right wing is the only offensive thing about this issue at all.

Your comparison is invalid

Your comparison is invalid and you are supporting something you do not understand at all. Timothey McVey was not following Christian doctrine; can the same be said of Islamic suicide bombers? Do the research - read the Koran and speak with Muslims - find ones that will tell you honestly what they would do if they had the choice. I have - I'll tell you what they told me. They said that if they could vote (visa holder) they would vote for a sharia based government. Do you know why? Because that is what the religion tells them god wants them to do. Any Muslim who says they believe in separation of church and state is like a homosexual calling himself Catholic - or he is just telling you what you want to hear. If they do anything other than that then they are not following what they hold to be the perfect and unchanging will of god. There are many other very ugly things they are commanded to do - go and learn. I did, I've been learning about Islam for over 10 years now and it is not something any free thinking or freedom loving person should have anything to do with. It is about SUBMISSION - in EVERY aspect of your life. There is no personal power in Islam - the power is given to god, but since god is not available for comment the power is really given to the imams because they are the ones who interpret the religion and tell the followers what to think. Tin foil hats are worn by folks who are fearful without facts, but you deniers have your heads buried in the sand up to your waists - as if ignorance and craven appeasement will somehow protect you. The real xenophobia is the religion that says anyone who is not "one of us" is a resource to be exploited. The real hate speech is the religion that teaches that all other peoples should be conquered, enslaved, extorted, or killed. Have you ever watched the religious TV sermons from an Arab country??? You can find them on YouTube easily. That is what they have back home instead of the 700 Club. Watch it sometime will you? Let your compassionate generosity and good will for those people come face to face with what they are really about for once. I think you will cringe at what you see and hear.

Dear "Your comparison is

Dear "Your comparison is invalid",

It was very clever of you to find Muslims who would tell you honestly what they would do if they had a choice. I'll bet the first fifty Muslims you asked told you great big lies, like "I prefer American democratic institutions over a sharia-based government", or "I left the Middle East for the United States because I wanted more freedom", or even "Hey, I just want to earn a decent living like other Americans, don't bug me about politics." Most people would have taken those Muslims at their word -- but not you, eh? You knew if you asked long enough, you would find *real* Muslims -- evil, despicable, submissive Muslims -- who want nothing more than to destroy our way of life.

Oh, and thanks for the tip about the sermons on YouTube. Everybody knows the 700 Club represents Mainstream America, so I guess some videos on YouTube must represent Mainstream Muslim society too.

Thanks for clearing it all up for us, Mr. Dan!

Clever was it? It required

Clever was it? It required more than a flippant sound bite of a thought to get off my backside and go searching for answers. In the media we here about all these bad things and the images of protests and slogans. I was not content with the explanations offered and set out to get first hand the facts. Since you have called attention to it I will tell you more about what I found. Without exception – every Muslim I met was a polite, courteous, and friendly person, no exceptions. When I explained my purpose they were willing to instruct me because my interest in them and this issue is genuine. The people who told me they would vote for Sharia law appeared to be ashamed of this admission. They hung their heads and looked at their feet when they said this. As you have accurately pointed out they did come here to find better living conditions - they do want freedom, they do want opportunity. My impression was that some of them were *relieved* that they were not allowed to vote because it gave them an excuse to avoid the issue. Why would someone support something they did not want? Because if they do not do this they are not a good Muslim, even if that means betraying their friends, their neighbors, and the society that has extended hospitality to them. If they do not attempt to institutionalize Sharia then they are not in obedience to god.
Concerning your charge that I did not take them at their word – how is that possible when it was their side of the issue that I sought and they told me personally? Or, should I have reason to doubt when it is written in the scripture that Muslims should say whatever they must to gain the trust and acceptance of the infidels? I find it curious they did not equivocate to try and hide this.
Also, you have insinuated that I was searching for evidence to support my expectations – that I hold a prejudice that all Muslims are evil and out to destroy my way of life. If that were so I should not speak to them, being one of the people who already” knows” everything about the other, like yourself. The real bigot asks no questions and has only insults to contribute – go to the mirror hypocrite!
The Muslims are not trying to “destroy our way of life”, they are trying to do what they are taught god wants them to do. The goal is to transform every society into their image. This image is not one based on freedom, personal liberty, and reason - rather it is based in submission and coercion with clerical dictators who have absolute power. They do this because that is what gets them in good favor with god and they have no right to question it.
Concerning my comment about the 700 Club and the recordings of Arab Islamic broadcasts. If you compare them you will quickly observe that even in the hard core American Bible belt there are no young children taught to embrace the role model of suicide bombers or jihadist, nor are they taught to hate and kill other people. That is the teaching of Islam – and they are right out in the open about it, no shame at all. It would be nice if some TV stations here would start playing that stuff so that more people with their heads in the sand can get a taste as they channel surf. With luck a few might stop to watch the spectacle and judge it.
Mr Dan and Dogboy - who is the bigger fool? Mr Dan is afraid of the things he sees even though he is unable to articulate his dread or form a defense, but he feels it in his bones that he is threatened. Then there is Dogboy, a naïve product of a sheltered and coddled upbringing who lacks the courage to acknowledge the threat because he is so conditioned to be nice to everyone. One would make matters worse with an ineffective response; the other would do nothing but lie on his belly for the bully.

"If you compare them you

"If you compare them you will quickly observe that even in the hard core American Bible belt there are no young children taught to embrace the role model of suicide bombers or jihadist, nor are they taught to hate and kill other people. That is the teaching of Islam – and they are right out in the open about it, no shame at all."

Would you mind referring to the part of the Koran that advocates embracing suicide bombers? Or perhaps one of your Muslim interviewees could help you with that.

If you really want to give

If you really want to give me a rebuttal and show how wrong I am then why not take this opportunity to explain how secular Islam works?

Let's imagine a future America that is 60% Islamic and every town you visit there is a busy mosque and all the women are covered in headscarves and burqas. The president is Muslim and 60% of the house and senate are Muslim.

Explain if you will please why the Statue of Liberty and Mount Rushmore would not suffer the same fate as the Buddhas of Bamyan? Explain how, when the Islamic community finally holds the majority vote, they will uphold the 1st and 2nd amendments because this is what the Koran teaches? Why would separation of church and state continue? Why would the goofball preacher who wants to burn Korans be protected?

Lay it out here as plainly if you will please? Tell us the way an Imam would tell his congregation?

There are a lot of people who want an explanation that is clear, logical, factual, and above all reasonable. Take a chance and try to make a small improvement right here?

Don’t be afraid, if I can endure the slings and arrows of the peanut gallery then so can you.

Sure, that is a fair

Sure, that is a fair request.

I cannot imagine an America where all women are covered in head scarves and (in particular) burqas any more than I can imagine an America where all women dress like the women in Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Google it -- I am not talking about the Mormons). Instead of modelling all 1.5 billion Muslims after the Taliban, let's look at a more moderate group. The most populous Islamic country in the world is Indonesia. 230 million people. They have head scarves, and they have mosques -- I don't know whether the mosques have swimming pools -- but none of them wear burqas.

I too was outraged at what the Taliban did to the Buddhas of Bamyan, but I do not believe you can use that as the model for how all Muslims behave. In the most populous Muslim country in the world, you can still see the temple of Borobudur. (See for example http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/history/buddhist-art/boro.htm). The Indonesians not only tolerate this huge template but treat it as a tourist attraction. There are human statues of the Buddha and human images engraved on the sides of the template. I hope you have a chance to see it someday.

Granted, Indonesia can be a violent place. Much of the violence is for economic reasons -- the government is very corrupt, not unlike some of the predominantly Catholic nations in Central and South America. Still, Indonesia is a democracy, with regular elections and three branches of government.

A minority of Indonesia is Christian. While many of the Muslim women wear head scarves, many of the Christians do not. My wife grew up in Indonesia. Neither she nor her family are Muslim. She did not wear a headscarf. No one beat her up or threatened her because of it.

We are a long way from a 60% Muslim America, and it is hard to project how American and Islam would change. Perhaps it would become the norm for women to wear head scarves, just as it used to be the norm for men to wear hats. Or perhaps not -- as people immigrate, they tend to change their customs, perhaps not in the first generation but within two or three. I have a friend -- a fellow software developer -- who is Muslim. His parents immigrated from the Middle East. My friend takes his religion seriously and has taken a pilgrimage to Mecca. He does not believe the United States should be run according to Islamic law. I believe many of the Muslims living in my town have a similar take on Islam, although I have not attempted to survey them.

One last point about the Taliban: even within Afghanistan, there are plenty of Muslims who are not as brutal or ignorant as the Taliban. If you want proof, read Greg Mortenson's "Stones into Schools Promoting Peace with Books, Not Bombs, in Afghanistan and Pakistan". Mr. Mortenson sees a lot of beauty and wisdom in Islam, and yet he is neither a terrorist, nor a misogynist, nor an advocate of replacing the United States government with Islamic law.

Thank you for listening.

Thank you for the carefully

Thank you for the carefully thought out reply and for the effort that went into crafting it.

As you may also observe, Feisal Abdul has been getting some good air time to address the fears I have outlined in previous posts. His claim is that the ideals of (Sufism) Islam and the ideals of America are in harmony - but I have not found any reasoning offered to support this claim.
You have presented some good examples of Islamic societies preserving cultural heritage. The other half of the question would benefit from a reply of similar quality.

What is the justification in Islam for the protection of personal freedoms and the separation of church and state?
Because in the defense of freedom I must endure the sight of boorish fools burning my flag and my constitution - how is it true for Muslims that they must endure words or acts that they find offensive or insulting?

You have also mentioned knowing coworkers who have emigrated from the Middle East who take their religion seriously. I also work with Muslim immigrants, some of them I have known for years. One in particular is the most friendly, helpful, hard working, and patient person I have ever met. It was my thought – until I started asking questions – that if all Muslims in the world were like my friends at work then there would not be any of the evil images I see on TV coming out of Iran, Saudi Arabia, and all the other countries where Islam is dominant. So I ask them, what would they do? They reply I got is what I have posted here – they told me (sheepishly) they would vote for a Sharia government. This totally blew my image of them. They came here to find a better life! Why would they want to recreate the society they left behind if they did not want it? Why would someone use their first choice to remove their right to make choices? It does not make any sense unless it is out of blind obedience to scriptures. As long as I have known them they have been model citizens and they are remarkably devout in their faith. Does that faith tell them that freedom is not what god wants and they must replace it with theocratic oppression?

I do not know what Islam has

I do not know what Islam has to say about the protection of personal freedoms and the separation of church and state, and without knowing the Muslim immigrant co-workers you mentioned, I am reluctant to speculate about why they said they would vote for a Sharia government. Have you asked your immigrant co-workers why they emigrated from their home countries? It would also be interesting to ask which aspects of Sharia would be preferable to the United States' current body of law. Sharia covers a lot of ground.

I think the evil images we see on TV coming out of Islam-dominant countries represent the interaction of many forces: not just the influence of Islam, but for example the economic and political relationships of nations that generate too much of the their income from selling natural resources.

Why shouldn't THEY vote for

Why shouldn't THEY vote for it, when the Christian right has been doing it FOR YEARS?!?!?!?

More propaganda.

More propaganda.

Does this mean that infidels

Does this mean that infidels can go into the mosques and use the swimmming pool. Women are not allowed to pray with the men. So bull---- on this cartoon. Its not telling the truth. What a slant and what bias.

I've gone swimming in our

I've gone swimming in our local Mosque many times. I'm not Muslim. I have Muslim friends though. Warm welcome from Toronto Canada!

It's co-founder is a jewish

It's co-founder is a jewish woman.

So yes, 'infidels' can go swimming too. It isn't a mosque.

I will gladly support a

I will gladly support a mosque on or near ground zero when Churches, synagogues buddhist and hindu temples ETC can be built in Mecca and other Muslim countries without fear of persecution.

oh right, because the Bible

oh right, because the Bible tells you
"do unto others as they do unto you"

and the bill of rights says
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion (except MUSLIMS D:)"

don't go that route... you'll forfeit your precious moral superiority!

But shouldn't our country be

But shouldn't our country be the example to follow, instead of being a follower of bad examples?

An example to follow by

An example to follow by cutting our own throats and letting in a religion that practices murder and intolerance.

We already let that one in;

We already let that one in; Christianity has been here forever.

I'd like to think about your

I'd like to think about your statement in more depth, as I agree with it... but as you know this is America, not another Muslim country.
Religious Freedom is just that, and that is why we are America.

So... you're willing to give

So... you're willing to give up one of our basic principles, freedom of religion, until repressive regimes do it instead? Wouldn't that make them better than us at BEING us?

Also, FYI, Mecca isn't a country, it's a holy place. Ground Zero isn't holy, so the comparison doesn't work.

So our religious freedom,

So our religious freedom, which we started a war to 'spread' throughout the middle east, is only 'reciprocal'?

Glad to hear you will gladly

Glad to hear you will gladly support the principles on which the United States of America was built - and stands - only once everybody else in the world lives by those principles.

It is.... a *principled* stand!!

Sure you would. Apparently

Sure you would. Apparently then you think our constitutional freedoms are not guaranteed.

Bin Laden must be rubbing

Bin Laden must be rubbing his hands with glee at all the opposition to the mosque near Ground Zero. It would allow him to claim that America hates all muslims.

Instead the mosque should be welcomed, as a visible afirmation of the First Amendment of the Constitution which guarantees freedom of religion for all. That's what the extremists fear - equality and freedom for all, whatever your race, religion or creed.

thank you for creating a

thank you for creating a tasteful and informative animation to help people keep this in perspective.

thank you for creating a

thank you for creating a tasteful and informative animation to help people keep this in perspective.

Jesus must be proud that his

Jesus must be proud that his followers learned his message of love for all was learned so well!

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