This country was destroyed by FDR. The recession is the result of his overthrow of capitalist free markets and continuing assaults by the community reinvestment act, high state taxes and big government
"The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. "
-Franklin D. Roosevelt, "Message from the President of the United States Transmitting Recommendations Relative to the Strengthening and Enforcement of Anti-trust Laws"
FDR had the courage to call for a workers bill of rights. Any politician who supports a workers bill of rights today would get my vote. It’s too bad corporate sponsorship of both of our political parties prevents someone like this from ever being elected.
Submitted by mainestategop on Tue, 2011-10-18 19:50.
Its not goodwins law to rightfuly demonstrate similarities between nazis.
Lets see what liberals and nazis have in common:
They support gun control
abortion
public schools
BIG government
regulating
travel bans
eugenics
universal healthcare
youth movements
brawling with police
They oppose:
homeschool
religion
free speech
free press
search warrants
free markets
Jews and Israel
states rights
Normally I don't bother responding to posts where someone screams "NAZI!!!" but...damn. This one is special and I want to reply simply out of pity for you, so that you won't humiliate yourself like this again. I could write a whole paper going down your list and explaining why nearly everything you've said is utterly, objectively, factually wrong, but let me just highlight some of things that really stood out when I read it.
Travel bans? When have liberals supported that? Are you referring to Cuba? Because I'm pretty sure it wasn't liberals who came up with that. And what's this about eugenics? The eugenics movement was popular all across the political spectrum in the early 20th century. Yes, it was certainly a shameful episode in American history and there were definitely liberals who supported it, but you can't act like conservatives weren't involved.
Regulating business? Well, yeah, liberals do support that. But Hitler was hardly a business-unfriendly leader. Wealth and big business wield enormous power in fascist society, in fact, fascism's opposition to the kind of attitudes seen in the OWS protests was a major draw for the 1% of the 1930s. Big businessmen and industrialists loved Hitler. Just look at IBM.
Youth movements? Um...why is this bad? A youth movement is just, well, a movement of youth. It could be the Hitler Youth or the OWS protests or the Girl Scouts. It's a completely apolitical term and saying Hitler supported it is like saying Hitler supported the breathing of oxygen. Its true...but utterly meaningless.
Brawling with police? Putting aside the peaceful nature of the OWS protests, and the fact that liberals are always the ones to neuter protests BEFORE they become riots, do you actually know what Nazis were? If you're ever unlucky enough to end up time-traveling back to Nazi Germany (and I sincerely hope you don't!), try going up to a Gestapo agent and punching him. See what happens. Nazi police were many things, but "soft on brawling" was not one of them.
Liberals do not oppose the free press. Obama didn't try to shut down FOX but the Tea Party tried to defund NPR. I shouldn't even need to explain this one and further, so I won't.
Jews and Israel...wrong again, quite offensively so. Many Jews are liberal, so yeah, that part of your argument pretty much fails right off the bat. And even the liberals protesting Israeli actions in Palestine usually don't hate Israel itself, they hate the illegal and violent nature of the IDF's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. Whatever your opinions on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are, please don't confuse criticism of Israel with antisemitism. There are plenty of Jews in Israel who are critical of the occupation as well. Also, conservatives have a long history of antisemitism due to their delusion that America is a Christian nation. Whether that's true anymore is up for debate, but don't try and rewrite history.
Search warrants? Where the hell did that come from? Bush, a conservative president, was the one who allowed warrantless searches and wiretaps. Liberals were pissed at Obama because he DIDN'T support the warrants.
States' rights? Well, since Hitler wasn't around to debate Abraham Lincoln, this is a pretty nonsensical point. But since states' rights basically meant slavery at the time, and Hitler obviously had nothing against slavery...you're probably wrong on this one too.
So yeah...take some time out of your schedule and enroll in a basic political science class. One of the first things you'll learn is that fascism is a far-right ideology and liberalism is on the left, and that the two are completely opposed to each other. Absorb what you learn, and even if you make more mistakes while arguing in the future, at least you'll avoid some of the most embarrassing factual errors that made you look like an idiot in your post. And before you call me a liberal shill, let me establish that I'm not actually a liberal(or a conservative). I certainly enjoy making fun of liberals, but I don't like seeing entire ideologies slandered based on false information.
Submitted by Gary Kleppe on Wed, 2011-10-19 16:23.
One more, because there are people out there who are ill-informed enough to believe this stuff....
The Nazis didn't oppose religion. Hitler was a lifelong Catholic whose reign was supported by the Vatican. He frequently praised religion and railed against atheists in his speeches. A major Nazi slogan: "Gott mit uns," meaning "God is on our side."
Liberals don't oppose religion either. Some of us are atheists, some aren't. We do tend to oppose any government support for religion. We oppose the co-opting of religion by persons wanting to use religion to promote their own interests. And we oppose religious bigotry. None of that equates to opposing religion. Famous religious liberals, just off the top of my head, include Martin Luther King Jr., Jesse Jackson, and what's-his-name, the one who said that rich people couldn't get into heaven and who kicked the free-market money changers out of the temple.
Submitted by Gary Kleppe on Wed, 2011-10-19 14:30.
Congratulations, you've just pegged the goofy meter.
Abortion? "In Nazi Germany, the penalties for abortion were increased again. From 1943, the provision of abortion to "Aryan" women was threatened with the death penalty." ("Abortion in Germany," WikiPedia)
Travel bans? Who set up the whole "Homeland Security" apparatus with secret no-fly lists? Not liberals.
Universal health care? Public schools? Germany had the former for more than sixty years before Nazis took power and the latter since the days of Martin Luther.
Brawling with police? Yeah, I'm sure that was really smiled upon when the Nazis were in power.
I could go on, but some of this is just too ridiculous for words. Liberals oppose search warrants? If George W. Bush is your idea of a liberal, maybe. Liberals support eugenics? On what planet? And it's not "opposing Jews" to oppose the actions of the Israeli government, which didn't even exist at the time of the Nazis. But I guess your home schooling didn't have time to cover things like basic historical fact.
those words confuse you I see, "socialist" and "fascist"...when private entities own the means of production in a totalitarian system it is fascism or the perfect melding of capitalism and "government"...what we in fact are heading for. When the government owns the means of production in a totalitarian government it is fascism. Don't let the use of labels fool you...remember Hitler had Goebbels and he new how to craft words...job creators instead of rich and such...
Submitted by Gary Kleppe on Mon, 2011-10-17 16:17.
Wow, that's brilliant, even for you. Let's see if I can apply your reasoning to some other contexts:
Some people consider Jesus Christ the messiah. Others considered Reverend Moon the messiah. Therefore Christ led a cult which brainwashed young people in order to con them out of their life savings.
Some people consider Mark Fiore a talented artist. Some people think the same about my son. Therefore Mark Fiore really ought to clean his room.
Albert Einstein is widely considered to be intelligent. You no doubt consider yourself to be intelligent. Therefore Einstein was a chucklehead who posted specious arguments on Internet sites because he felt that his position of privilege might be threatened.
(The fact that the Nazis had "socialist" in their name doesn't mean that they actually supported any socialist positions, but maybe we should deal with one idiocy at a time.)
That's just what the U.S. needs, 15 years of depression, war, price controls, rationing, tax increases, theft of capital by the federal government, military conscription, arrests and show trials for sedition, concentration camps for ethnic minorities... ah, the good old days of American fascism.
Yes, what the US needs is 15 years of economic recovery, defeating powerful international enemies (that actually posed a global threat), investment in infrastructure (notably Grand Coulee Dam and the TVA), the population working as a whole for the common good, minority integration into the military, the civil rights movement in its embryonic form . . . ah, the good old days of American Progress.
Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini had everyone working for the common good and were investing in big concrete infrastructure projects too. They also called it progress. One man's progress is another man's fascism.
There was no recovery under FDR. The recovery started after he died. The war created more powerful international enemies (The Soviet Union and Communist China) than it defeated. The cold war lasted about 50 years with all of the waste that created. Minority integration in the military happened under Truman, not FDR.
Comments
This country was destroyed
This country was destroyed by FDR. The recession is the result of his overthrow of capitalist free markets and continuing assaults by the community reinvestment act, high state taxes and big government
Apparently the US was
Apparently the US was destroyed by FDR, hence why we won WWII. Oh, wait . . .
Ummm, hence why we had an economic boom in the years after The New Deal and WWII. Oh, wait . . .
"The first truth is that the
"The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. "
-Franklin D. Roosevelt, "Message from the President of the United States Transmitting Recommendations Relative to the Strengthening and Enforcement of Anti-trust Laws"
FDR had the courage to call
FDR had the courage to call for a workers bill of rights. Any politician who supports a workers bill of rights today would get my vote. It’s too bad corporate sponsorship of both of our political parties prevents someone like this from ever being elected.
Hitler's Socialist goons
Hitler's Socialist goons were also considered the 99%
Just another bunch of parasites and lazy shills after other people's money.
Wir sind die 99 Prozent! Wir sind die 99 Prozent!
I invoke Godwin's Law and
I invoke Godwin's Law and proclaim thee to be an idiot.
Its not goodwins law to
Its not goodwins law to rightfuly demonstrate similarities between nazis.
Lets see what liberals and nazis have in common:
They support gun control
abortion
public schools
BIG government
regulating
travel bans
eugenics
universal healthcare
youth movements
brawling with police
They oppose:
homeschool
religion
free speech
free press
search warrants
free markets
Jews and Israel
states rights
Normally I don't bother
Normally I don't bother responding to posts where someone screams "NAZI!!!" but...damn. This one is special and I want to reply simply out of pity for you, so that you won't humiliate yourself like this again. I could write a whole paper going down your list and explaining why nearly everything you've said is utterly, objectively, factually wrong, but let me just highlight some of things that really stood out when I read it.
Travel bans? When have liberals supported that? Are you referring to Cuba? Because I'm pretty sure it wasn't liberals who came up with that. And what's this about eugenics? The eugenics movement was popular all across the political spectrum in the early 20th century. Yes, it was certainly a shameful episode in American history and there were definitely liberals who supported it, but you can't act like conservatives weren't involved.
Regulating business? Well, yeah, liberals do support that. But Hitler was hardly a business-unfriendly leader. Wealth and big business wield enormous power in fascist society, in fact, fascism's opposition to the kind of attitudes seen in the OWS protests was a major draw for the 1% of the 1930s. Big businessmen and industrialists loved Hitler. Just look at IBM.
Youth movements? Um...why is this bad? A youth movement is just, well, a movement of youth. It could be the Hitler Youth or the OWS protests or the Girl Scouts. It's a completely apolitical term and saying Hitler supported it is like saying Hitler supported the breathing of oxygen. Its true...but utterly meaningless.
Brawling with police? Putting aside the peaceful nature of the OWS protests, and the fact that liberals are always the ones to neuter protests BEFORE they become riots, do you actually know what Nazis were? If you're ever unlucky enough to end up time-traveling back to Nazi Germany (and I sincerely hope you don't!), try going up to a Gestapo agent and punching him. See what happens. Nazi police were many things, but "soft on brawling" was not one of them.
Liberals do not oppose the free press. Obama didn't try to shut down FOX but the Tea Party tried to defund NPR. I shouldn't even need to explain this one and further, so I won't.
Jews and Israel...wrong again, quite offensively so. Many Jews are liberal, so yeah, that part of your argument pretty much fails right off the bat. And even the liberals protesting Israeli actions in Palestine usually don't hate Israel itself, they hate the illegal and violent nature of the IDF's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. Whatever your opinions on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are, please don't confuse criticism of Israel with antisemitism. There are plenty of Jews in Israel who are critical of the occupation as well. Also, conservatives have a long history of antisemitism due to their delusion that America is a Christian nation. Whether that's true anymore is up for debate, but don't try and rewrite history.
Search warrants? Where the hell did that come from? Bush, a conservative president, was the one who allowed warrantless searches and wiretaps. Liberals were pissed at Obama because he DIDN'T support the warrants.
States' rights? Well, since Hitler wasn't around to debate Abraham Lincoln, this is a pretty nonsensical point. But since states' rights basically meant slavery at the time, and Hitler obviously had nothing against slavery...you're probably wrong on this one too.
So yeah...take some time out of your schedule and enroll in a basic political science class. One of the first things you'll learn is that fascism is a far-right ideology and liberalism is on the left, and that the two are completely opposed to each other. Absorb what you learn, and even if you make more mistakes while arguing in the future, at least you'll avoid some of the most embarrassing factual errors that made you look like an idiot in your post. And before you call me a liberal shill, let me establish that I'm not actually a liberal(or a conservative). I certainly enjoy making fun of liberals, but I don't like seeing entire ideologies slandered based on false information.
One more, because there are
One more, because there are people out there who are ill-informed enough to believe this stuff....
The Nazis didn't oppose religion. Hitler was a lifelong Catholic whose reign was supported by the Vatican. He frequently praised religion and railed against atheists in his speeches. A major Nazi slogan: "Gott mit uns," meaning "God is on our side."
Liberals don't oppose religion either. Some of us are atheists, some aren't. We do tend to oppose any government support for religion. We oppose the co-opting of religion by persons wanting to use religion to promote their own interests. And we oppose religious bigotry. None of that equates to opposing religion. Famous religious liberals, just off the top of my head, include Martin Luther King Jr., Jesse Jackson, and what's-his-name, the one who said that rich people couldn't get into heaven and who kicked the free-market money changers out of the temple.
Congratulations, you've just
Congratulations, you've just pegged the goofy meter.
Abortion? "In Nazi Germany, the penalties for abortion were increased again. From 1943, the provision of abortion to "Aryan" women was threatened with the death penalty." ("Abortion in Germany," WikiPedia)
Travel bans? Who set up the whole "Homeland Security" apparatus with secret no-fly lists? Not liberals.
Universal health care? Public schools? Germany had the former for more than sixty years before Nazis took power and the latter since the days of Martin Luther.
Brawling with police? Yeah, I'm sure that was really smiled upon when the Nazis were in power.
I could go on, but some of this is just too ridiculous for words. Liberals oppose search warrants? If George W. Bush is your idea of a liberal, maybe. Liberals support eugenics? On what planet? And it's not "opposing Jews" to oppose the actions of the Israeli government, which didn't even exist at the time of the Nazis. But I guess your home schooling didn't have time to cover things like basic historical fact.
those words confuse you I
those words confuse you I see, "socialist" and "fascist"...when private entities own the means of production in a totalitarian system it is fascism or the perfect melding of capitalism and "government"...what we in fact are heading for. When the government owns the means of production in a totalitarian government it is fascism. Don't let the use of labels fool you...remember Hitler had Goebbels and he new how to craft words...job creators instead of rich and such...
Wow, that's brilliant, even
Wow, that's brilliant, even for you. Let's see if I can apply your reasoning to some other contexts:
Some people consider Jesus Christ the messiah. Others considered Reverend Moon the messiah. Therefore Christ led a cult which brainwashed young people in order to con them out of their life savings.
Some people consider Mark Fiore a talented artist. Some people think the same about my son. Therefore Mark Fiore really ought to clean his room.
Albert Einstein is widely considered to be intelligent. You no doubt consider yourself to be intelligent. Therefore Einstein was a chucklehead who posted specious arguments on Internet sites because he felt that his position of privilege might be threatened.
(The fact that the Nazis had "socialist" in their name doesn't mean that they actually supported any socialist positions, but maybe we should deal with one idiocy at a time.)
What an idiot, support the
What an idiot, support the ones stealing from you! The parasites are the 1% idiot.
You're right! The parasites
You're right! The parasites ARE the 1%! They are currently camping out and panhandling on our public parks all over america.
Nah, they prefer to send
Nah, they prefer to send lobbyists to D.C.
That's just what the U.S.
That's just what the U.S. needs, 15 years of depression, war, price controls, rationing, tax increases, theft of capital by the federal government, military conscription, arrests and show trials for sedition, concentration camps for ethnic minorities... ah, the good old days of American fascism.
Yes, what the US needs is 15
Yes, what the US needs is 15 years of economic recovery, defeating powerful international enemies (that actually posed a global threat), investment in infrastructure (notably Grand Coulee Dam and the TVA), the population working as a whole for the common good, minority integration into the military, the civil rights movement in its embryonic form . . . ah, the good old days of American Progress.
Stalin, Hitler, and
Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini had everyone working for the common good and were investing in big concrete infrastructure projects too. They also called it progress. One man's progress is another man's fascism.
Stalin, Hitler, and
Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini also breathed oxygen. Obviously breathing oxygen is fascism!
There was no recovery under
There was no recovery under FDR. The recovery started after he died. The war created more powerful international enemies (The Soviet Union and Communist China) than it defeated. The cold war lasted about 50 years with all of the waste that created. Minority integration in the military happened under Truman, not FDR.
Unemployment in the US went
Unemployment in the US went steadily down after 1933, when FDR was elected, the definition of recovery.
Also, it seems we should have lost WWII, or compromised with the Axis, or something.
Integration of the military started under FDR (Tuskegee Airmen), and was finalized by Truman.
Hey Mark. Have not been on
Hey Mark. Have not been on the site in awhile. man, you were ahead of the curve with your. I think it's been up for what? 10 years at least!
Beautiful Mark! Excellent!
Beautiful Mark! Excellent! Bravo! You hit it square on the head!
Watch out for those lefty
Watch out for those lefty hippie guys from the past!
-MF
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