There is no great 'liberal conspiracy hoax'. None. There can't possibly be, because even if you got the world's majority on board with it (somehow), capitalism would still utterly derail it. Put it this way: the first big conglomorate that comes up with a cost-effective safeguard to minimize the long-term consequences of global warming upon us, is effectively going to end up ruling the world. I'd have thought you conservatives would have been all over THAT, surely?
Not sure I follow you. Seems to me Darwinistic materialism is the core reason that capitalism works so good, so if liberty is defined as selfishness, then Al Gore was simply using solid capitalistic methods to further sales of his books. Unfortunately, he does not have that killer instinct that the finest of the fittest have, but liberals lack, so he may well fail as a capitalist. All the while, the ice caps melt, and the glaciers recede and calve off. President Clinton said it "was the economy, stupid". All Al Gore needs to say is that it "is the ice caps, stupid".
Gonna associate capitalism and liberty with being selfish now? Hugo Chavez is basking in wealth while his peoples starve. Stalin and Lenin also did this.
GLobal warming, the biggest hoax in history. Its nothing more than a revival of eugenics. The thrid world depends on electricity to develop and leave poverty. The liberals dont care. For the sake of unproven theory they will continue to allow Africa Latin America and Asia to wallow in poverty and primitavism. This is the whole purpose of that un proven theory. to keep people enslaved.
It's also known that the sun's output isn't entirely stable over the relatively short-term, but generally not catastrophically (except for satellites). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_variation
Sure, Wikipedia isn't authoritative, but it's a good primer.
So let me get this straight. NOW CAMPFIRES TO KEEP WARM AND FROM FREEZING TO DEATH IS BAD FOR HUMANITY?!
Liberals... For the sake of the myth of global warming they will cause families to freeze and go hungry during winter, cause working poor families to lose everything paying for gas to go to worker jobs, increasse homelessness increase unemployment all because of a myth. No mention of the real cause...
Funny that your chart ends in 1980... and that the third TinEye entry for the image comes from the sarahpalininformation blog. I didn't find a legit source for the whole image, but I appreciate that that the credit for the bright twinkly stuff in the background went to NASA.
Thats the best you liberals can do? Just because a copy is on Sarah Palin's website then everything is false?
And so what if it goes up to 1980? We didnt have warming during the industrial revolution in 1880 and we were spewing tons of smoke then, we HAD global warming before factories and so on (OH BUT WE HAD CAMP FIRES! OOOOOOOOOO) Yet all studies show that sun spot activity not campfires and factories are to blame.
What will you do after the temp. goes down world wide? Blame Jews?
I'm pretty sure that the best "we liberals" can do is done by scientists who produce charts like the one I linked to already.
I find it funny that you DON'T think it relevant that your chart is thirty years out of date. Give me a recent version that disagrees with the chart I linked to, please. Any one of your "all studies" will do, so long as it is peer-reviewed by independent scientists, has not been debunked, and can be considered representative of general present-day scientific opinion. (I'm aware of the "global cooling" theories from the 1970's... have you ever read "The myth of the 1970s Global Cooling Consensus" by TC Petersonet al, September 2008 volume 89 issue 9, Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society? It is available at http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/Myth-1970-Global-Cooling-BAMS-2008.pdf and claims that, between 1965 and 1979, there were 7 papers on cooling, 20 neutral, and 44 on warming).
I have no problem with the idea of sunspots as contributing factors for our climate. I do have a problem with your apparent belief that any and all change must be linear. A very basic way of thinking about it would be to consider titration experiments from first year chemistry... You can start with a very clear liquid, and it stays clear as you add another chemical UP TO A POINT, when the whole concoction suddenly turns a pretty purple. Climate is more complex, but similar reactions are likely to exist in one way or another.
The term "Climate change" is used to reflect the wider swings in temperature and other climate effects that we see in the world today. "Global warming" is an outdated misnomer held on to by people who wish to discredit a scientific theory without the use of scientific methodology. Climate will always change, our concern is the degree to which is does so.
When the temperature drops, I will put on a heavier sweater.
It never occurred to me that the Jews would be at fault for climate change. Is that one of the theories in one of the papers you've not bothered to link to?
1. Where do you guys really think all that coal and oil came from?
2. Amd what about that large ball of self - sustianing fusion matter, i.e the sun that drives our climate, you think that's compeltely stable?
I think the origin of coal and oil is still rather stiffly attached to what the science crowd calls theory. I have my own theory as to these origins, and they are definately part of related phenomena. With respect to this discussion, however, both these questions, and the question concerning the infidelity of the sun are well sorted and well evidenced. For starters, study the Iridium layer. Am sorry I cannot tranfuse my many hours of study on the subject so that you, too, can understand. You must study the subjects yourself to understand why the current status of a theory is what it is. Won't do for you to stand back and throw rocks at us,demanding we re-invent the wheel for you! The data is out there; furthermore, you do not have to have a doctorate to earn a generalized command of the subject matter. Forgive the tone of arrogance; any of what I said has the property of being falsifiable.
1) Coal begins as layers of plant matter accumulating at the bottom of a body of water. For the process to continue, the plant matter was protected from biodegradation and oxidization, usually by mud or acidic water. This traps the carbon in immense peat bogs that are eventually covered and deeply buried by sediments. Under this compression the plant material is metamorphosed into coal: over time, the chemical and physical properties of the plant remains are changed by geological action to create a solid material.
The important sentence here is "...traps the carbon in immense peat bogs that are eventually covered and deeply buried by sediments." All that carbon was sequested away from the surface. Now we have brought this carbon (by huge quantity) on the surface and burned it.
2) The debate about wether global warming is man made is moot anyway;
If, as you imply, the reason for climate change is the sun, then the human inteligence has lost the race against nature. We do not posses the technology yet to tame the sun of start a colony on another planet. Literally all our eggs are in the same basket. And we as a specie have lost.
But IF by any chance the cause for global warming is man made then we CAN act and do something about it.
Will there be change to our way of living? Sure; But WE get to say how theses changes will be implemented. Will some peoples loose their jobs? Of course, like all change in society some people loose some win. Think of all the recents changes in society and jobs lost/gain by the advent of the internet (postal service, fax repairman, etc). Should we stop change?
I'll remind you that economic laws, political decisions are not "natural" law (in the sense of gravity law) theses are all collections of human decisions that have shape our world. Now these decisions/laws are at best killing our ability as a civilisation to survive on Earth or at worst killing our ability as a specie to survive.
Comments
There is no great 'liberal
There is no great 'liberal conspiracy hoax'. None. There can't possibly be, because even if you got the world's majority on board with it (somehow), capitalism would still utterly derail it. Put it this way: the first big conglomorate that comes up with a cost-effective safeguard to minimize the long-term consequences of global warming upon us, is effectively going to end up ruling the world. I'd have thought you conservatives would have been all over THAT, surely?
"Global Warming" is just Al
"Global Warming" is just Al Gore's attempt to destroy capitalism by imposing Darwinistic materialism at the expense of our liberty.
Not sure I follow you. Seems
Not sure I follow you. Seems to me Darwinistic materialism is the core reason that capitalism works so good, so if liberty is defined as selfishness, then Al Gore was simply using solid capitalistic methods to further sales of his books. Unfortunately, he does not have that killer instinct that the finest of the fittest have, but liberals lack, so he may well fail as a capitalist. All the while, the ice caps melt, and the glaciers recede and calve off. President Clinton said it "was the economy, stupid". All Al Gore needs to say is that it "is the ice caps, stupid".
Gonna associate capitalism
Gonna associate capitalism and liberty with being selfish now? Hugo Chavez is basking in wealth while his peoples starve. Stalin and Lenin also did this.
GLobal warming, the biggest
GLobal warming, the biggest hoax in history. Its nothing more than a revival of eugenics. The thrid world depends on electricity to develop and leave poverty. The liberals dont care. For the sake of unproven theory they will continue to allow Africa Latin America and Asia to wallow in poverty and primitavism. This is the whole purpose of that un proven theory. to keep people enslaved.
So now camp fires have to be
So now camp fires have to be outlawed? CAMP FIRES?!
Preliminary answers: 1. A
Preliminary answers:
1. A limited resource.
2. No. Evidence of a few super novas merely in my humble lifetime say no, not likely that stable.
So what is your &@#$ed point?
1. Dead animals or plants (I
1. Dead animals or plants (I always get which one wrong.) ages ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel
2. No. We're pretty sure it's going to go catastrophically wrong in the next couple of billion years, engulfing out everything out to the asteroid belt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_giant#The_Sun_as_a_red_giant
It's also known that the sun's output isn't entirely stable over the relatively short-term, but generally not catastrophically (except for satellites).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_variation
Sure, Wikipedia isn't authoritative, but it's a good primer.
So let me get this straight.
So let me get this straight. NOW CAMPFIRES TO KEEP WARM AND FROM FREEZING TO DEATH IS BAD FOR HUMANITY?!
Liberals... For the sake of the myth of global warming they will cause families to freeze and go hungry during winter, cause working poor families to lose everything paying for gas to go to worker jobs, increasse homelessness increase unemployment all because of a myth. No mention of the real cause...
Funny that your chart ends
Funny that your chart ends in 1980... and that the third TinEye entry for the image comes from the sarahpalininformation blog. I didn't find a legit source for the whole image, but I appreciate that that the credit for the bright twinkly stuff in the background went to NASA.
There's a similar chart at http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.h... that goes up to 2009 that you might find interesting. The two lines diverge pretty dramatically from 1980 onward.
Cheers
Thats the best you liberals
Thats the best you liberals can do? Just because a copy is on Sarah Palin's website then everything is false?
And so what if it goes up to 1980? We didnt have warming during the industrial revolution in 1880 and we were spewing tons of smoke then, we HAD global warming before factories and so on (OH BUT WE HAD CAMP FIRES! OOOOOOOOOO) Yet all studies show that sun spot activity not campfires and factories are to blame.
What will you do after the temp. goes down world wide? Blame Jews?
I'm pretty sure that the
I'm pretty sure that the best "we liberals" can do is done by scientists who produce charts like the one I linked to already.
I find it funny that you DON'T think it relevant that your chart is thirty years out of date. Give me a recent version that disagrees with the chart I linked to, please. Any one of your "all studies" will do, so long as it is peer-reviewed by independent scientists, has not been debunked, and can be considered representative of general present-day scientific opinion. (I'm aware of the "global cooling" theories from the 1970's... have you ever read "The myth of the 1970s Global Cooling Consensus" by TC Petersonet al, September 2008 volume 89 issue 9, Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society? It is available at http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/Myth-1970-Global-Cooling-BAMS-2008.pdf and claims that, between 1965 and 1979, there were 7 papers on cooling, 20 neutral, and 44 on warming).
I have no problem with the idea of sunspots as contributing factors for our climate. I do have a problem with your apparent belief that any and all change must be linear. A very basic way of thinking about it would be to consider titration experiments from first year chemistry... You can start with a very clear liquid, and it stays clear as you add another chemical UP TO A POINT, when the whole concoction suddenly turns a pretty purple. Climate is more complex, but similar reactions are likely to exist in one way or another.
The term "Climate change" is used to reflect the wider swings in temperature and other climate effects that we see in the world today. "Global warming" is an outdated misnomer held on to by people who wish to discredit a scientific theory without the use of scientific methodology. Climate will always change, our concern is the degree to which is does so.
When the temperature drops, I will put on a heavier sweater.
It never occurred to me that the Jews would be at fault for climate change. Is that one of the theories in one of the papers you've not bothered to link to?
Cheers
I've two simple questions 1.
I've two simple questions
1. Where do you guys really think all that coal and oil came from?
2. Amd what about that large ball of self - sustianing fusion matter, i.e the sun that drives our climate, you think that's compeltely stable?
I think the origin of coal
I think the origin of coal and oil is still rather stiffly attached to what the science crowd calls theory. I have my own theory as to these origins, and they are definately part of related phenomena. With respect to this discussion, however, both these questions, and the question concerning the infidelity of the sun are well sorted and well evidenced. For starters, study the Iridium layer. Am sorry I cannot tranfuse my many hours of study on the subject so that you, too, can understand. You must study the subjects yourself to understand why the current status of a theory is what it is. Won't do for you to stand back and throw rocks at us,demanding we re-invent the wheel for you! The data is out there; furthermore, you do not have to have a doctorate to earn a generalized command of the subject matter. Forgive the tone of arrogance; any of what I said has the property of being falsifiable.
1) Coal begins as layers of
1) Coal begins as layers of plant matter accumulating at the bottom of a body of water. For the process to continue, the plant matter was protected from biodegradation and oxidization, usually by mud or acidic water. This traps the carbon in immense peat bogs that are eventually covered and deeply buried by sediments. Under this compression the plant material is metamorphosed into coal: over time, the chemical and physical properties of the plant remains are changed by geological action to create a solid material.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal
The important sentence here is "...traps the carbon in immense peat bogs that are eventually covered and deeply buried by sediments." All that carbon was sequested away from the surface. Now we have brought this carbon (by huge quantity) on the surface and burned it.
2) The debate about wether global warming is man made is moot anyway;
If, as you imply, the reason for climate change is the sun, then the human inteligence has lost the race against nature. We do not posses the technology yet to tame the sun of start a colony on another planet. Literally all our eggs are in the same basket. And we as a specie have lost.
But IF by any chance the cause for global warming is man made then we CAN act and do something about it.
Will there be change to our way of living? Sure; But WE get to say how theses changes will be implemented. Will some peoples loose their jobs? Of course, like all change in society some people loose some win. Think of all the recents changes in society and jobs lost/gain by the advent of the internet (postal service, fax repairman, etc). Should we stop change?
I'll remind you that economic laws, political decisions are not "natural" law (in the sense of gravity law) theses are all collections of human decisions that have shape our world. Now these decisions/laws are at best killing our ability as a civilisation to survive on Earth or at worst killing our ability as a specie to survive.
Post new comment