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Very funny!!!
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20 hours 45 min ago - What I meant by the first
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I can dig the jab at people
I can dig the jab at people who turned a blind eye to Bush's largesse, but readily attack Obama's, but what about the people who have been frugal all along? Here is a very important speech about the Great Depression of 1920 and why you've never heard of it. I'm no economist, so I can't vouch for it, but the ideas are compelling:
Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czcUmnsprQI
.mp3:
http://mises.org/multimedia/mp3/misescircle-colorado09/05_ColoradoMC_Woo...
So true, so true. Another
So true, so true. Another great commentary on things, Mark.
By the way, Newly Frugal Guy bears a striking resemblance to another porculent, cigar-smoking, false patriot and windbag, Rush Limbaugh. Was that by design?
Was that Ayn Rand?
Was that Ayn Rand?
I would respond with more
I would respond with more words and less anger, but the very subject makes me so mad I feel sick just contemplating it. If you don't like it, go read something else; I'm not gonna sugar coat my anger for you.
You know, I think I'm entailed to be angry: First I have to put up with George "Moron" Bush as US president because Dumf--kistan (AKA "The Red States") are populated, in the majority, by an electorate too stupid to know when they're being played for fools. Then I have to watch as the American financial system busily creates a black hole that drags the world economy down to the brink of disaster, and now just to add injury to insult, the con artists on Fox News are blaming everyone but themselves and their neocon friends for the mess they helped create. How is it that these assholes are still allowed to have a cable channel as a platform for their nonsense? Seriously guys: Shut down Fox News. Demand that your cable or satellite company not force you to pay for it. If they refuse, take your business elsewhere. Make sure the carriers get the message: We don't want Fox News. Hit Rupert Murdoch in the bank account, because that's the only way you're gonna get his attention.
Brilliant! This says it all!
Brilliant! This says it all! The best response to the teabaggers so far! And you didn't even have to use sexual innuendo. Keep up the good work Mark!
Actually the best possible
Actually the best possible solution to the mess is to implement a new Bretton Woods agreement as FDR once had the forsight to do. Alexander Hamilton's economic theory worked for this country from it's inception, till about Woodrow Wilson's turn towards empire building and "Democracy" for the globe's peoples as a puppet of the British Empire.
The past 8 years of
The past 8 years of unemployment and downturn was the result of Bush's policies. Bush's tax cuts went only to 1% of the richest Americans while states raised taxes on everybody else. Bush also increased spending 4 times that of Clinton, leading to deficits. Meanwhile, these companies were permited to send jobs overseas to other countries and import undocumented workers from all around the world who took away the few jobs left.
Also, you had a war going on, you also have a situation where the little guy is being kept down and small businesses are being whacked by burdensome taxation and regulation and licensing fees and paperwork. The big corporations loved it and we all got screwed.
NOW, we have the fed taking our money and giving to these same fat cats while evicting and laying off workers. If this keeps up, America is done for.
I am so sick that we waited this long for tea parties. This tea party movement should have happened 20 years ago.
you are correct in that bush
you are correct in that bush has deserved SOME of the blame for this mess however..... one jimmy carter placed in to law an order requireing banks to give morgages to people who couldn't afford a "normal" morgage this lead eventually to the subprime market so thats what 5 presidents who watched that policy develop to what it is now..... i think some blame could be spread around there to both party's...
>jimmy carter placed in to
>jimmy carter placed in to law an order requireing banks to give morgages to people who couldn't afford a "normal" morgage
Somebody hand this guy a fire extinguisher, because he is a liar liar pants-on-fire. There is no such law... unless you somehow transform "you can't discriminate in loan considerations based on race" into "must give loans or we shoot you". There is no such law, and I challenge you to find it before you vomit forth this Rush Limbaugh bullsh!t again. Hell, even RUSH wouldn't be able to find it, but he'd never admit it, because then it might prove that the free market did it to itself.
The truth is somewhere in
The truth is somewhere in the middle.
This guy definitely isn't pro-Obama, but he brings up some verifiable facts:
Planting Seeds of Disaster
If you're still interested, I can also find the house resolutions that legislated the relaxation of borrowing standards.
Anything off the National
Anything off the National Register has to be taken with a giant grain of anti-bias salt.
Agreed. But that doesn't
Agreed. But that doesn't make the 'facts' that they present any less verifiable.
Curiously, both right and left pundits agree that there was a relaxation of credit standards. The contention is about whether or not this relaxation was a "helping hand up to minorities underrepresented in the housing market" or a "foolish giveaway to people with no business holding mortgages".
Either way is technically 'racism'. In the former case, the premise is that urban minorities need a 'leg up' because they're riskier borrowers. (Which, given the phenomenal rate of default on sub-prime loans in the urban minority demographic, seems to be well-founded.)
In the latter case, minorities are forever consigned to living in the ghettos.
Whatever the reason for the relaxation, it, along with the insane leveraging and insurance gimmickry of the central banks, is what precipitated the meltdown.
"The road to hell," as they say, "is paved with good intentions."
The racism lies in the fact
The racism lies in the fact that opportunities are not and have never been equal for all Americans. If someone comes from these disadvantaged areas, they have to work at least twice, if not three times, as hard as someone who had adequate support for their education and upbringing. When your parents had nothing, and could get nothing because they had no education (and no opportunies for an education), and were continually sucked-dry by a combination of insufficient pay and exorbitant rents, odds are very high that YOU won't have anything either. On the flip-side, those from an affluent background have a much easier time getting a good position in society, either by means of better educational opportunities (anyone who says that the state schools are the equal of private institutions needs a reality check) or better social networking or both, and thus are more likely not to have the burden of ever-increasing rent.
It's not racism to tell the banks to lend to minorities; it's racism to tell them that a Ford Focus is equal to a Porsche, and that it's their fault it doesn't perform the same.
I would disagree that the
I would disagree that the relaxation of standards was a cause. If it had been left to that, it might have made some impact on the banks' bottom-lines, but nothing catastrophic. It was the repackaging of liabilities as assets and extreme overleveraging in the hunt for higher profits that did the damage. Saying that the loans caused it is like saying that steel is responsible for Hiroshima because the shell of the atomic bomb was steel.
Thank heavens for 'Newly
Thank heavens for 'Newly Frugal Guy'! He's come just in time to educate Americans that two wrongs don't make a right.
Many of you may be wondering why Mr. Fiore chose to showcase NFG's opinions on his site.
The answer is simple. Mr. Fiore understands that irresponsible deficit-financed spending by Bush 43 certainly does not justify equally irresponsible deficit-financed spending by the current administration. NFG is simply pointing out that (hypocrisy aside) those people condemning the glut of debt-financed spending are the ones voicing the correct, reasonable opinion that may save America from financial ruin.
Mr. Fiore understands, of course, that his nation is tapped out. Illiquid, and since mid-2008, effectively insolvent. Foreign appetite for US Treasuries has evaporated and any new liquidity injected into the system is necessarily provided by the Fed printing more money. The nation is staring down the bore of hyperinflation as early as the first quarter of 2010. Mr. Fiore understands that inflation is a tax on all Americans--especially unfair to the poor and destitute, since the prices of food, gasoline, and homes multiply rapidly during inflationary cycles while minimum wage creeps upward at a snail's pace.
The only remedy to such a cycle is, as Mr. Fiore and NFG suggest, drastically cutting spending to bring the nation into a non-debtor status. Mr. Fiore points out that it's a no-brainer--international confidence in the dollar is restored, inflation is curbed, and the interest payments on outstanding debt are saved in the process. Furthermore, states rejecting stimulus money can do so without a trace of hypocrisy when they condemn the trillions being dispatched to support failed insurers and zombie banks on Wall Street--by far the greatest recipients of stimulus blood-money to date.
What NFG is saying, in a nutshell, is that one can move money around all they wish. Until the base productive output of the nation improves, taxing the poor through inflation to pay for their social services is counterproductive. Creating jobs where nobody has any use for the productive output is equally problematic. And doing it all on a debtor basis, in a nation where the public, personal, and corporate debt have exploded in recent years, is as stupid and misdirected as it was in Bush 43's years.
NFG is expressing the plain and simple truth: What was stupid during Bush 43's reign is still stupid today. (Simple, I know. But some people get hung up on issues like hypocrisy, which cripples their reasoning ability.)
Mr. Fiore brings guests like NFG on from time to time to remind us that it's time to pay our bills. Make painful cuts, stop deferring (and thereby amplifying) the costs until the system melts down, quit applying costly band-aids to a gaping flesh wound, and hope that the downturn incentivizes new development: the way the system is supposed to work.
My thanks (and yours should too) to Mr. Fiore for featuring the unpopular but wise, and rather necessary opinions of Newly Frugal Guy.
Free Market, Ho-o!
Deliberately missing the
Deliberately missing the point, eh? NFG is nothing more then a clear portrayal of the hypocritical nature of the political right...
As anyone can tell, the right act like the spending of the past administration was all well and good, but now the spending *required* to get the economy moving again is all Obama's fault.
It's nothing but purely laying blame. Sure, Obama could of done what they did in the early 1930's.... he could of cut everything, shutdown everything, got to budget back in line---- and it would of course tipped America and the entire World into the greatest Depression of all time. Come election you think the Conservatives would admit that their ideals had failed? Hell no, they'd of blamed the Democrats, of course, like usual.
Personally, I think Obama is following history's example of leading the country out of economic doldrums by spending money to get businesses moving, employment down, etc etc
I don't blame him for this one bit. The question is, of course, this spending is unsustainable long term, so when is AMERICA (note I say AMERICA not President whomever or Political Party whichever) going to realize that we cannot survive as we are now--- our nation will FALL.
There's a real "Everybody else but me needs to pay/take the cut" attitude out there. Problem is, everyone has that attitude. Everyone thinks they are entitled to their services, money, etc and everyone else must take the hit. Reality says this just isn't going to work out.
Because we've dug ourselves in so deep, we face some really dire situations that I don't think people realize we're going to face.
Here's just a few of them:
The tax system is completely screwed up. Personally I think the entire system should be trashed, and replaced with a 50/50 solution of flat income tax and national GST tax.
War & Military: Sorry, we can't afford it. Seriously. We're like the USSR was after the breakup--- all this military, and can't afford to upkeep it! We're going to have to downsize into a much, MUCH smaller force, highly skilled and trained and equipped, but basically, much smaller.
Medical / Social: Uh, totally out of control. We can't afford how much medical programs cost. The free market is not working here--- either we accept that, or we accept that most Americans will have little health care and will go bankrupt. We also can't afford Social security as it stands, either. I feel structured living may be the only solutions when people can't live on their own money.
Other social programs: Sorry, we can't afford those either in their current setup. I know it's tough, but people are going to have to work hard hand make responsible choices. Failure to do so means basically you accept a structured living enviornment. We can't afford this "Oh it's your right to do whatever you want, and we'll just pay for it for you."
Corporate welfare (Subsidies/incentives/tax havens/bailouts etc)
Sorry, all got to go. See #1 (Tax reform)
Obviously these type of solutions are long term prosperity, short term hardship type problems. Bitter pills if you will, that will hurt the economy and unemployment and affect a lot of people's lives negatively---- for quite awhile.... but long term these type of solutions will save the nation and make us grow and be strong once again. Once we have our house in order, then we can think about things like a bigger military, or Space programs, or foreign aid, etc....
A simple, excellent
A simple, excellent discussion on Geithner's plan:
Geithnerism
I strongly advise a gander for those new to finance. It consists of seven parts, and shows you in succinct terms why:
Also, as a nod to Mr. Fiore's ancestors (those editorial cartoonists of old), I found this toon from 1934. Do you notice anything familiar?
>3.contrary to Mr. Fiore's
>3.contrary to Mr. Fiore's truism in 'Leverage Me Tender', the PPIF is not better than having no plan at all
So, we should have just let things continue as they were, hands-off, destroying even more of the economy? Sounds like an excellent way to have the USA become a client state of China. Any plan is better than sitting back and ignoring the problem, like the former administration did.
My sole contention is that,
My sole contention is that, despite the ramifications to the greater economy, the Treasury's chief goal should be to balance the books, restore international faith in the dollar, and excise the cancer that is the insolvent central banks. Allowing them to fall into bankruptcy is the only sound option.
Take the time to watch the videos.
Completely unrelated to TALF, TARP, the PPIF: I certainly have no objection to another 'New Deal'-type plan, so long as it is not deficit financed and it places workers into productive jobs. Computerizing health records and subsidizing ethanol production is what Ralphie astutely calls 'porkity-pork-pork-pork'.
If you want more proof that the central banks are a cancer that is slowly metastasizing to every organ of the greater economy, you can take it from the chief economist at the IMF.
Various interesting reads can be found here, here, and a bit more conspiratorially (but well worth the read if you're an Obamaphile) here.
A more-real-than-not synopsis of the meltdown in progress is found here.
These articles represent just a tiny cross-section of why you should be questioning the policies of Mr. Obama's administration.
I won't bore you with the details of the coming collapse of the commercial real estate market. Suffice it to say that all the spending in the world isn't going to prevent it. If somebody actually takes the time to read any of the articles (and disagrees with its premise), I'd love a debate.
"The war for freedom will never really be won because the price of freedom is constant vigilance over ourselves and over our Government. - Eleanor Roosevelt
Ah, the old "play the
Ah, the old "play the communism/socalist card"! It worked SO WELL back then, and was SO ACCURATE! I mean, we HAVE been living in a dictatorship for SO LONG, and that pesky Constitution is a thing of the long past!
It's a pile of horsecrap, and you know it.
It's not my cartoon. ;) And
It's not my cartoon. ;)
And the guy that wrote it is probably long dead. Let's have a little respect for the deceased here!
I didn't dig up his corpse
I didn't dig up his corpse and slap it around; I was quite restrained!
Besides, political cartooning is, and always has been, the province of talentless hacks prone to more exaggerations than a house full of virginal fratboys. The few exceptions to this drive the rule home like a piledriver on the rest.
> NFG is nothing more then a
> NFG is nothing more then a clear portrayal of the hypocritical nature of the political right...
Yes, I realize that Mr. Fiore is right to be calling out the neocons as hypocrites. But rather than having another Ralphie-fly-into-the-past toon to expose the neocons' former reverence the Bush policies, the message is "you have no right to point out your own mistakes". As a responsible journalist, Mr. Fiore should jump on them and 'comrade Obama'.
> Sure, Obama could of done what they did in the early 1930's.... he could of cut everything, shutdown everything, got to budget back in line---- and it would of course tipped America and the entire World into the greatest Depression of all time.
Mr. Bernanke? Did they let you out again?
*Sigh* For lack of the will to educate you on the matter, here are the bullet points:
Like Bush's stimulus check. That worked miracles for the economy, didn't it? All that spending, moving, and employing...
"History's example" is that you can't spend yourself into prosperity. And in the US' current state, the Fed could expand the M1 supply by tens of trillions and still not have enough to encourage large-scale lending by the central banks. They're really that dead.
The 'solution' of dumping 7.1 trillion into the system to make it look like the system isn't completely melting down stems directly from this theory. And if you've paid attention to any of my posts, they're doctoring the looks like true pros: rigging the metals markets, fudging housing and employment statistics, funneling money to the zombie banks through failed insurers to show 'profits', and putting together bogus 'stress tests' that even hardcore insiders are choking on.
If you believe any of it, congratulations! You're apparently well-modeled by behavioural economics!
> I don't blame him for this one bit.
At what point will you start blaming him?
> War & Military: Sorry, we can't afford it.
No, you can't. I'm glad we agree.
> We can't afford how much medical programs cost. The free market is not working here--- either we accept that, or we accept that most Americans will have little health care and will go bankrupt.
No argument here. Someone recently posted a documentary about an underinsured Leukemia patient in Houston. She was charged hundreds of thousands up-front, with mind-blowing markups and surcharges on the treatment costs. Her lawyer was commenting about a $60.00 charge for a bag of saline that costs pennies to manufacture and administer.
I wouldn't change our (Canada's) system for yours in a million years.
> Other social programs: Sorry, we can't afford those either in their current setup.
Tell that to Mr. Fiore.
> Bitter pills if you will, that will hurt the economy and unemployment and affect a lot of people's lives negatively...
Which means that we basically agree.
> Once we have our house in order, then we can think about things like a bigger military, or Space programs, or foreign aid, etc....
It really doesn't matter. NASA's funding for a year is < 2 billion, and the US ranks dead last in terms of foreign aid contributions by GDP in the G20. Something like 0.014%... :P
Can you feel the love?
I agree. >Make painful cuts,
I agree.
>Make painful cuts, stop deferring (and thereby amplifying) the costs until the system melts down, quit applying costly band-aids to a gaping flesh wound, and hope that the downturn incentivizes new development: the way the system is supposed to work.
For example, cut all government subsidies of industries that are making plenty already (the oil companies, for example) as well as wasteful development money being pumped into new "superweapons" which will never see deployment in the modern world, stop deferring the price of improving education and health care availability so that we have a productive and healthy workforce, stop propping up failed financial entities and instead nationalize or sell their assets to offset investor losses, and hope that the downturn breaks some of the monopolies that have reared their heads under a toothless regulatory environment.
Oh, and going back to doing things the old way (tax cuts, tax cuts, and more tax cuts) is the opposite of new development; it just rewards the same old song-and-dance. So, do the USA a favor, and turn off FOX News, everyone... unless you like the comedy.
Free market for the
Free market for the commons.
Socialism for the rich.
SOP.
"Free-market, ho!" indeed...
"Free-market, ho!" indeed...
Chinese made flags and tea
Chinese made flags and tea bags, yea, those are real patriots
you need to get mr Taylor on
you need to get mr Taylor on here more often!
LOL... "have a tea party".
LOL... "have a tea party". LOL.
I guess the repubs forget that part of the tea party was tar and feathering the brits.
I do not see the AIG execs... or the past administration lining up for it...
- StupidPeopleTrick
Exactly!
Exactly!
This cycle of perpetual
This cycle of perpetual debt, bailouts, multiple economic crises, etc. will never be solved as long as private banks/corporations are allowed to control the money supply/money flow.
The REAL problem is the Federal Reserve! They are accountable to no one. They control (for the most part) the policies which govern America via paid supporters, unnoticed by most people. They are the main reason for the suffering economy.
To fix the problem, you have to go to the root. Eliminate the FED (and other similar institutions), then we just might be able to implement policies that actually fix these problems.
Of course, to do that, enough people need to know the truth...and to implement solutions that work, instead of blindingly accepting what we are told because 'it sounds good on paper'.
You can't fix the economy by 'throwing money at it' (especially when it is created out of thin air!). The money has to be distributed properly.
Obama's plan may sound good, and even seem like it is working for a while, (more than I can say for Bush's "plan"), but it won't really fix the problem.
The Federal Reserve was
The Federal Reserve was created to protect the people's money. If a bank fails, should everyone loose everything they have? No, it means that if a bank fails YOUR money is protected.
"then we just might be able to implement policies that actually fix these problems." How many people would starve, be foreclosed on, be on the street, homeless and destitute while those problems are fixed.
"You can't fix the economy by 'throwing money at it' (especially when it is created out of thin air!). The money has to be distributed properly." So, you are all for paying money to rich people but not the middle class? All for proper distribution? What is that even???
Just what part of everyone loosing do you not understand?
No, it wasn't. The FDIC was
No, it wasn't. The FDIC was created in 1933 (20 years AFTER the Fed) to protect the people's money, not the Federal Reserve.
The Fed was created to, and I quote from the Bill:
"Provided for the establishment of Federal Reserve Banks, to furnish an elastic currency, to afford means of rediscounting commercial paper, to establish a more effective supervision of banking in the United States, and for other purposes."
The "elastic currency" part means it was to intentionally and artificially inflate and deflate the money supply to help smooth the financial sector and prevent -- or at least mitigate -- economic booms and busts. It was there to prevent things like the financial collapse that preceded the Great Depression and what we have now.
To be clear, the Fed was created in 1913, well before the GD. They have admitted publicly, in testimony to Congress, their their mishandling of events at that time made things much worse. Many people blame them for exacerbating today's crisis as well.
And the term you are looking for is "losing". And to answer your question, if you want to pay money to the middle class, why did the stimulus bill have so little (in proportion) for small businesses? Small business employs 80% of the workers in America, yet the stimulus bill contained more funds for "community organizers" than small business.
The problem is capitalism
The problem is capitalism for the poor, socialism for the rich.
The FED allowed everything to happen to enable the free market.
The free market is dead and buried. Milton Friedman is rolling in his grave at his collosal failures.
It's amazing, isn't it? 8
It's amazing, isn't it? 8 Years of silence and now you can't stop them for talking about how Government spending is ruining America-- and of course it's all Obama's fault.... Wow! Managed to destroy America in a couple of months.... everything was just peachy before.
Sheesh. If the voters fall for this, then we are truly suckers. They're back to the same old platform they had BEFORE they took over Government. I guess they hope nobody will remember....
Thank you mark for
Thank you mark for clarifying today's scary activities. Watching people voice out their opinion was very empowering, why the hell were they 6 years late in doing so? I miss the 60's. Keep up the great work!
30% tax payer from California + .095% tax on everything else
The new animation is up and
The new animation is up and running! See who is changing their tune now that those commie-pinkos are in charge.
Special thanks to voice-acting star, John Taylor. (I only wish I had more time to animate his great delivery better!)
-Mark
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